E053: Christmas at Work (2019 Christmas Special)

now on to this episode. Hello. This is James, and this is Jane, and

here we are again with another episode of a world of work podcast. This is a bit of a Christmas special, isn't that, right? Jane, it's Christmas. Sometimes I wish I had a party popper. Yeah.

Well, maybe we can put our little hats on in a minute and have a little celebration. What are we speaking about today? Jane, so

Oh, I'm so excited. I can't believe this day has come. We are recording our Christmas Special, which is something that James, I have been asking for about, well, far too long, but I wanted to do, I think, yeah, probably. I was like, Can we do a Christmas special? And what we're going to do is the idea and genesis for this episode is really about some of the challenges you face over the festive season, and there's going to be some relatively serious stuff in here. So some of the things that maybe can put pressures on you or that you can find difficult over the holiday season with relation to work, but we're also going to touch on some of the lighter stuff as well, and how you can get the most out of the season and hit come out of it the other side feeling really great and ready for the new year. So that's what we're going to talk about. I think James is going to kick us off just thinking about maybe some of the people in and around us at work that feel differently about Christmas.

Yeah, that's right, I'm going to touch on that. And as some of you might have noticed, we're trying to pick up a pace with some of our podcasts a little bit. So hopefully we're going to get this special down to a sort of more manageable length for you. But as Jane said, I wanted to just start off and reflect on some of maybe harder things about Christmas and the holiday season in general, and and just reflect on some people who maybe face a bit more challenge in this space, and just share a bit of time for them so quite often, particularly in organizations, but in broader life as well and in the media, Christmas is really promoted as a celebratory period, or this festive season is promoted as a really celebratory happy period with focus on on family, on time with others, on cozy living environments, on, you know, eating in good cheer and sharing and being included in lives and and all that kind of good stuff, which is an excellent thing for the world to celebrate, you know, all those types of things. However, there are lots of people who it's worth noting sometimes struggle with the types of messaging and the entire nature of this festive period. So we just wanted to spend a minute touching on that. So I guess some people that it's worth thinking about and trying to make sure that we include and recognize when we're looking at our holidays, include some people who are lonely. So there are some people who maybe don't have the positive home experiences that many people have. There may be people who have lost loved ones, or people who are separated, or people who aren't able to see their family, or maybe even people you know, potentially people in the care system and other places like that. So generally, there's a collection of people for whom the celebrated promoted message of you know, a family based Christmas is uncomfortable, or it's it's promoting things that don't fit with their lived experiences. So it's just worth thinking about that group of people, and that can include people who've lost others as well. So when we're at work, you know, we might be exuberant and promoting the goodness of our holiday experience, but it's just worth remembering that there may be people who don't have that positive home life to go to, and we should try and bear them in mind. There's some other people we should try and think about as well. So, you know, most of us, or many of us, I should say, think about the festive season, almost as a secular holiday. It's a consumption based period around which we, as I said, see family and, you know, eat good food and celebrate with those around us. But underlying this festive season, of course, are religious holidays, particularly Christmas, which gives the name to what we think about primarily in this holiday season. But there are obviously other other holidays, like Hanukkah at the same time, similar time. And it's just worth noting that underneath all of this, this is a religious holiday, so there are groups of people who are devout in their religion, for whom the importance of a religious aspects of these holidays maybe take on more of a prominent but. Then the more secular aspects of a holiday. So again, it's worth being aware of this group of people and remembering that this is an important and fairly developed period of time for a large group of people. Similarly, there are groups of people who are religious and part of other faiths. This could be your Hindus, your Muslims, whichever religion we want to speak about, who maybe feel to some extent that this religious holiday isn't as inclusive for them as it could be, and they might challenge as to why. You know, at a societal level, in the West, we celebrate these holidays, but not theirs, so it's just something worth bearing in mind there and then the last group of people who might find this period a bit harder are those who are working or who are on call in the front line in, you know, maybe service jobs and situations like that, and maybe working as paramedics and A and E and places like that, who don't get as drawn into the holidays as some of the rest of us. Pardon me. So I just wanted to touch on that group of people and then call out that we need to sort of keep these people in mind. Have you got any thoughts on that group of people?

Jen, I've been in that group of people once or twice, which is definitely it's nice to hear someone think about them. And I would super, super encourage anyone who comes into contact with any of those people and they know it. So, for example, you quite often know if you've got friends or family that work have to work over the Christmas period, or who may have different religious beliefs and things like that, I would check in and just check in about what you can do to either support them in that time. So is there something they'd like to do? Maybe they want to just get away from the Christmas thing, or maybe they want to do Christmas at a different time, if they work in it and be able to recognize that. And I think the other thing is, for those of us that have people in our lives who maybe Christmas isn't the easiest thing in the world, or isn't something they particularly look forward to, I think it's just being conscious of our own behaviors around them, and also, while also, well not being intrusive, give them the opportunity to join in if they want to, give them the flexibility to then withdraw if they need to, and making sure that what can be just quite a quiet time for them doesn't turn into something a little bit sadder, and that you really that's just about checking in on people and being conscious of where their state of mind might be.

Yeah, it's about being considerate to others, isn't it? I mean, that's, I guess, underlying a lot of the messages around this time of year. So it's something we should try and

do, yeah, and I think you can be I think the big thing about all of this, and actually all of the people you just talked about, is we are certainly in the UK. We have it drummed into us that this is meant to be the best time of the year, that this is amazing, that you should be doing, you know, you should absolutely be at the center of every party and having a great time. And some of us love that, and that's great. But just because the world is telling us that's what everyone feels and thinks and should do doesn't mean that that's necessarily the truth. So it's, it's you're not if you remember that, and you remember not everyone feels the same about it, you're 90% there, right? Yeah, there, right?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely all right. So that's a little reflection on some people who maybe find this period a little bit harder. Jane, would you like to take us on to part two of this podcast? Yeah?

So something I wanted to talk about, which I think is really interesting, is quite it's quite practical, and it can be quite divisive in some places, and it is about who and when people work over the Christmas period. Oh, exciting. Oh, I cannot tell you how many times I have witnessed, I'm very proud to say I get involved, how many times I've witnessed challenging conversations amongst peers because of organizational policies about who works when over Christmas and the New Year. And so I want to talk about two things really. One is, very briefly, I want to talk about some of the ways that organizations can avoid these problems, or at least mitigate for them a little bit, and so what policies they can have in place to try and help out. And the reverse of that is, if you are working over this period, and you're in a quiet office with not a lot of people around, and maybe there's not the stimulation of getting the work done, or there's not as much on the thing, how can you use that time really effectively? So those are the two things I briefly want to talk about. First, good annual leave policies are worth so much in the workplace, and when I say good by good, I would mean pragmatic, sensible, easy to understand, easy to plan for and fair in the eyes of the people utilizing them, right? Doesn't matter if your HR team think it's fair, it matters if the people engaging in it think it's fair. I was

just gonna say I think fairness is hugely important in this conversation or about sense of,

yeah, it is, and it's really, you know, the great thing about working in sport is the first thing you learn as an official is there is no such thing as fair. There is only perceptions of fairness, right? There is only what someone perceives to be fair. And. And not actually, there is no such thing, right? Because everyone sees it differently. Some people will say it's a fair system is long as everybody knows what it is and it's transparent. Yeah, some people you knew what you knew, what you knew you had to put first. Other people will think it's fair if it takes into account people's personal circumstances. Some people will think it's fair if it doesn't take into account people's you know, there's no you're not going to win that argument. The bit about writing an annual leave policy around this time of year is, ideally, it should be CO produced, and it should have the voices of most of the people who are going to be involved in it. And the best single thing you can do, if you can, and I am conscious that probably 50% of businesses can't do this, is if you have a team that do not need to be at work and can structure the rest of their year well enough, then don't make people come in in a period between Christmas and New Year, because it's it's just easier to have a blanket rule. I I've done it in two organizations now that I've worked in I introduced it in one, and I was worked in another, and without question, telling people the minute they start work, that you get annual leave at X number of days, but three of those rear marked, or five of those rear marks, whatever it is, over the Christmas period, and explaining that you do it to make sure the organization gets a proper break where emails aren't flying around, etc, is a really, really good policy. But it can't. It doesn't. It doesn't work for everyone. I get it, you know, there's a whole load of people out there who are going to be working on Christmas Day, running our, you know, healthcare, running our fire stations, etc, etc. I get it, but without question, if you can, what you don't want to do is be the organization that makes someone come in just for having someone on the end of the phone when they don't need to, right? That is not the organization you want to be. So what is that? The other thing is try and get people involved in it, and make sure it's not just He who shouts loudest who gets involved. Loudest who gets involved. Have some critical thought around it. So if someone says, you know, well, all the parents should get, should get first dibs on Christmas and New Year, but most of your staff are parents. It's probably not to solve your problem, because you're still going to have to pick between them. And I've been in other organizations where they deemed it's fair that you only get everyone who started work there in year one, in the first two years of their work, they have to work Christmas. Yeah, that might be perceived as fair by the people who are long termers, but if you never have to work Christmas once you've worked somewhere three years and you haven't worked Christmas for six years, but other people are having to do it two years on the trot, then they may perceive that it's not fair. Yeah, yeah. And if people do have to come in, or if they are coming in over that period, make it special. Make it so that it's a nice place to be. You know, the one of the worst, worst experiences I've ever had is I worked over Christmas, New Year, in one office, and they turned the heating off over Christmas and working. And I got in, and I was so cold I didn't know how to turn the heat on. It was awful. I know it was no one's fault. No one had just no one had thought, right, they because, anyway, so that was

a joy, really similar one I've had, like, just not intentionally, but in a giant office building where it was quiet, the heating was, you know, it sort of self adjusted to basically being off. So I was up there with my coat on, trying to type away, you know, with my scarf on and all that stuff. So, yeah, I feel

you, yeah. So just even things like putting a little note and a plus on as well, you know, an extra token for the coffee machine. When someone comes in and say, Look, we know you came in, and we really appreciate it. It goes, honestly, it goes, goes a long way. And then the reverse of this situation is, if you are leading on to that from, where from that point is, if you are in the office over that period, and it is quite naturally a quiet period for your organization, I would be thinking in advance, what you're going to use the time for. You know, are there projects that you've really wanted to spend a bit of extra time on that you haven't had the chance to do? You want to use it as an opportunity to sit down and plan your goals. And, you know, one of the things I used to love doing, I used to go in in that period when I worked in a small organization, and I used to tidy the office and have a massive clear out, is when I effectively was office manager, so I knew what everything was, and I could go into, you know, different folders and stuff, and I would reorganize the place and clean it, and everyone come in and they would be so happy in New Year, you know? And I'd like, I'd work out which chairs need replace all the really boring stuff. Yeah, it wasn't, strictly speaking, my job, because although I was kind of the office manager by accident, rather than anything else, and I've got everyone new notebooks so that when they came in in the new year, they all had a new notebook on their desk and a Happy New Year card. And so I spent a bit of time doing that, which I loved, and then I used to, I used to sit down and spread out big, a two bits of paper and a one bits of paper on people's desks and start planning out the year. And we'd already done lots of the planning around the year for the work. But I started thinking about my goals, my team's goals, our personal development, things like that, and looking at how we might invest in our learning and things like that. So I used to try and save up tasks for that period to make them really interesting and fun for me, because you don't get interrupted, right? No one ever emails you, yeah, absolutely,

to be honest, it's one of my favorite times to work. It's also one of my favorite times to be off, but it's one of my favorite times to work because, as you say. That other people aren't working. So when I've worked that period, which isn't actually very often, and most of my jobs, we've had sort of shutdowns over that time period, because we've been very project based. But when I am working, I do similar things to you, and I look to the future, and I do planning, and I tackle all those tasks I've put off, and I do it in a really uninterrupted way that I really enjoy. So I'm a big fan of that time period, really,

yeah, and it's when as now as I'm a freelancer, it's when I do my expenses. Yeah, I sit down and I do all my accounts and all my expenses over a couple of days. Because I can do it, and I can do it with a glass of wine at three in the afternoon and not feel guilty, yes, yeah. Or I can, you know, do it and then take dog out for walk away. Feel like and it's kind of the great thing about freelancers, you can kind of take the good bits of working it, yeah, but also leave the bad bits so you're not alone because you're doing it at home for once, for once, you don't feel lonely at home. So, yeah, I just, I guess, I guess my point is, if you are, if you are working that period, don't treat it as a normal work period, because it won't be try and get something out of it that you wouldn't normally. Wouldn't normally get out of

it. Yeah, that's a good message. Good stuff. All right. Well, let's jump on to the last section, or I guess the near last section of this. And I think what we're going to do is we've got a title here for this section that I'll read out to you. It's pretty snappy. The working title we've got is a good holiday season bracket overcoming pressures. Brackets listed Q and A thing. Brackets get the most, emerge unscathed. Ready for 2020? Good place. Comma. That's it. So I don't know why we ended with a comma, but we did so well. That is

I James, that that is why you are the marketing brains in this outfit. That is a sexy title for a section. I

think it fits over requirements, doesn't it? I mean, it's like, snappy rolls off a tongue, easily memorable, all those things. So, yeah, right,

brilliant. Well, we what's the point of it, though? The point of it, I guess, is to give people some practical information about how they can get through the holiday season and make most of it. Yeah, I think that's right. And I think

what we're going to do is we're going to do a couple of questions back and forth on it, and I think you've got a couple of questions for me. Couple of questions for me, and I've got a couple of questions for you. Do you want to lead off

with one and then, oh, this question? Yeah. Okay. So my question is about pressure. And I think my experiences of this part of the season, part of the year, is that I quite often feel like I'm exposed to a lot of different types of pressure on me, particularly things like social pressure, financial pressure. So I'm spending a lot of money. There's Christmas, but also there's loads of stuff I'm expected to join in and contribute to, like Christmas parties, etc. And I guess my question for you is, how do you think people can survive the season and enjoy the season while not succumbing to some of those sort of invisible pressures?

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think there are huge pressures around all of us. It is. It's a huge time for marketing and advertising, and it's a hugely social time, and we're, to some extent, fairly competitive as being so we feel some of that social pressure and that competitive pressure with others. So I think you're right, that that pressure exists, and I think that trying to get through it all unscathed is a great ambition, and trying to come out of it better than unscathed, to really come out of it in a good place is a great ambition. So in terms of the pressures we face, we face, as you said, financial pressures. And we face social pressures, and in terms of managing those, or dealing with those, like so many things, in my opinion, but the best way to start, or one of the most powerful things you can do at the start of this, is to be present and to acknowledge that, right? So as soon as you start to acknowledge that you are facing financial pressures to spend, or social pressures to go out, to maybe drink more than you would normally, to spend more money than you would, to do things that you wouldn't normally do, as long as, sorry, as soon as you start to acknowledge and be mindful and conscious of the pressures that you face, then you're in a good place to to move forward from, right? So the first piece is around acknowledgement and recognition, in my opinion, and then the next thing moving on from that is that, once you acknowledge it, you can do things that will help you with all these types of behaviors, right? So, you know, you could listen to our episode on behavior and behavior change if you want. But you can start to do things like pre committing to your behaviors. You can control the situations that you go into, you know, like the classic example is, if you have a giant box of chocolates at home, you're probably going to eat them, right? And if you want to eliminate that pressure altogether, you don't buy this box of chocolates. So when it comes to things like different social pressures, if there are particular environments where you don't want to be exposed to, you can opt out of even entering into this. And that's a bit harder over Bethesda period, because you want to be social with people, but that's one step that you can take. Other things that you can do to mitigate and overcome some of the pressures you face include speaking to people about them, planning your actions in advance, visualizing how you'll respond to different situations, and by, you know, thinking. Consciously and mindfully about the situations that you're going to be in, you can nudge, or materially shift the actions that you'll take in those different environments. I also think that speaking to others is important. There's a big overarching narrative that's pumped out around this time of year about going out partying, eating all the mince pies, drinking all the champagne, doing all that, you know, stuff and that pressure is all around us, but a lot of people feel the same about it. A lot of people feel that they are being influenced by these messages. So starting to acknowledge that and speaking to others about that is helpful. And you know, when it comes to things like buying of gifts and spending money. A lot of people are less maybe interested in the financial spend at this time of year than they are on the thoughtfulness and the consideration that people put into gifts and the kindness. So trying to speak to people about what do they really want? How can we make it a nice time, and sharing some of those conversations with others, I think, is helpful. So that's a bit of a bit of a rambly answer, but hopefully that gives it a little bit of thought to this. So I guess the two big takeaways are being mindful that those pressures exist, and with that, being mindful of how you'll respond to them, and that includes speaking to other people about it. So I guess that's kind of my thoughts on that. So I love that, hopefully. And I think it's, I think it's hugely important. Yeah,

it is. It's hugely important. And it goes back to things like loneliness and some of the things we've spoken about earlier, but make it hard for people to celebrate this this time of year sometime. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Cool.

So I got a couple questions for you. Okay, shoot, so, Christmas holidays, all that kind of stuff. There are lots of parties. People let their hair down a little bit, and inevitably, some behaviors sneak out somewhere along the lines that maybe we shouldn't do. Have you seen, you know, bad behaviors around this time of year or behaviors that you don't agree with? And what do you do about it? If you see maybe somebody drinks too much or behaves inappropriately or says something they shouldn't do and things like that. How do you respond it to that kind of

stuff? Oh, man. So yes, I have, is the quick answer. And I think most, I think most people have, yeah, not everyone, but I do think it's quite common that someone does something that's Well, let's start with out of character at the very least, and that might be a negative thing out of character, or it might just be out character, but particularly when people do things that you think they might regret in the future, and you're part of that because you see it, or you're in some way involved. And I think, yeah, yeah. I've seen a few different things. Actually. I've seen stuff where drinks involved, yeah, and I've seen people either maybe flirt with people they didn't want to or wouldn't have necessarily done when they were sober. I've seen people maybe disclose information, and I've actually been disclosed to myself about someone's personal life that maybe they would have chosen not to had they been sober. And yeah, I think it's a really tricky time for and I'm not saying it doesn't happen other times a year. I'm just saying that Christmas is shocking for it and Christmas parties and stuff like that. So I think one of the things I would do if you're at Christmas parties and you haven't been there very long, or you don't know people are very well, is I wouldn't drink too much, because if you don't drink too much, you're more likely to spot situations like that and back away from them. And actually, you probably just don't want to be involved in them. I think the that there's kind of three different phases, right? There's the avoiding being involved in them in the first place and exposed to them, and that's things like leave at the right time. You know, quite often you look around a party, and if you haven't had much to drink, or you're sober or driving, you'll look around. You get that sense when there's a bit of a turn on the party and it's nothing terrible is going to happen. It's just, you know, it's just, you know, someone's becoming singing more loudly or whatever, and you get that sense. So one is leave like, if you're not, if you're not in that place, and you don't want to be in that place, and you'd only be dealing with a pickup tomorrow. Leave right, nicely, but pick your time. I used to drive to my Christmas party. Wow. Okay, yeah, for a long time I used to drive to Christmas party because then I had an excuse not to drink because the pressures you talked about I used to have. I used to experience quite a lot, but those drinking. So I used to drive. And no no one, no one in the UK encourages you to drink if you drive, which is great, but it also means you've got an excuse, and you can often drive people home. So I used to be a bit of a savior. If I thought someone was getting a bit drunk, I might offer them a lift home. And as we all know, in London, if you live in a big city, a lift home is like the dream ticket. You know, you will give up a big night out if you're going to get a lift higher, right? So I used to do that. So I think there's the before bit, which is about the prepping and being ready and not being in the first place. I think there's the how you deal with it at the time. I think we can really get, easily get sucked into drama in situations like that. You know, you want to be the hero. You don't, not deliberately, but you do end up thinking, Oh, I'm going to save this person. Or you end up thinking, I just want to be anywhere near it. And you kind of offend someone, because they, you know, trying to get away from them. And so one of the things I would say about, if something does happen, and I'm not talking about stuff that is against the rules, right? I'm just talking about stuff that maybe people might be great in the morning, right? So it's a big difference between behavior that is so poor that it needs to be reported internally, or someone needs to be addressed, and just something that, you know, the example I would give is someone once disclosed to me that things weren't great at home for them in their personal life, but they wouldn't have done that normally, and I knew it was going to make them uncomfortable the next day. So that's the sort of thing. And, so what is how you handle it at the time, which is, don't get sucked in, don't mega dramatize it, don't react in a really, like big way. Try and just detach yourself in a situation, as long as that person is okay and in a good frame of mind, and you know, or invite other people into the group, you know, finish the conversation, and try and drag people into into the group, so that it becomes a lighter conversation, whatever that is. And then their bit is, how do you deal with it afterwards, right? And really, this is about your personal approach and your understanding of what that person's like. One of the best tactics I've ever used is, I um, is, is where you literally, you just, you kind of fess up early doors. So you go and see someone early doors and say, you know, I hope you had a good time last night. I really enjoyed talking to you. I know that's not the kind of conversation we have every day. And I just wanted you to know that that's why, you know, I understood you would just, it was a bit emotional for you, and actually putting that person a reassurance to know that you're not expecting it suddenly to turn into this, like, big modesty thing. And also, I think particularly, if someone's flirted with you, for example, and you're just not it's not your interest. And, you know, I'm not talking about rats, and I'm talking about if someone just flirts with you and you're not interested and they go away, making them, you know, giving them an out of, I know everyone was just a bit emotional last night, you know, blah, blah, blah. Give them an out and it, you know, it can avoid huge amounts, because they're probably sitting at their desk going, Oh no, I'm gonna have to go and apologize. And you know, if it's not offended you, it's just been awkward, then that's a really good way. I think if someone has done something that's very public, I think being the person that goes and takes them a coffee, and just you don't have to chat about it. Just do something nice to show that you're not judging them. I think is a really lovely thing to do as well. And the absolute rule is, don't, don't go to about it. Don't chat to other people, even if you do it under the guise of checking they're all right or whatever, as long as you know they're not in any harms way or anything like that. Just you know, if you're going to get involved, do it in a direct way and in an appropriate and proportionate way. If you wouldn't chat to them normally about personal stuff, don't do it now. You're not, you know, don't get dragged in. But if you're the kind of person that would make someone a coffee on most days, then make that the day that you make that personal coffee.

Yeah, great, great. I think there's some really great messages in there. And one of the big takeaways I'm getting it is about, you know, acting inclusive after you've seen something, if it's not a reportable type of behavior, if it's awkward and difficult, but not something that needs to be really addressed. As you said, it's about, you know, building the bridges and letting people back in and letting them feel valued, and helping them overcome whatever.

And you know, one of the things that, if you don't drink, you probably won't know, and as someone who did enjoy a glass of wine for a long time is the next day if you don't drink, what you won't be aware of is the way that drink works in your brain, is that the next morning hangovers are mentally quite painful, in the sense that you'll quite often get an over developed sense of doom, like what you've done. So you might have done something that's not really that terrible, but in your head, it might be the worst thing that anyone could have done, and you'll magnify it massively. So letting them, like you say, letting them back in, you know, making them bring them in from out in the cold, so to speak. Yeah, right. I'm

gonna go straight on to another question for you, and I think this is the last question I'm probably gonna ask you, and it's about planning, right? So, I mean, we talk about planning a few times. So if we think about this period, so the holiday season, and if we think about the period after it, what are your thoughts about, you know, planning to have a good holiday season. And what are your thoughts about doing, planning in that season? Does it? Is it a good time to plan for the new year?

So two aspects of this one, prepping for the season. Yes, do it, and that means getting plenty of sleep. It's going to be quite an intensive time. An intensive time if you're into the whole party season. So get get decent sleep in November. Be ready for it. Be Fit, Be healthy. Book in your gym sessions if you go to the gym, so that you keep them up during the season. Take extra vitamins, if that's what you do, try and eat as healthily as you possibly can, because that will help and make sure you've got proper warm clothes if you live in a cold climate. But also plan out your diary, so if you know you've got one week with three leaving dues, or three Christmas parties or three socials, make sure that you keep the Reds for the days clear. Plan. Try and do most of your shopping online as much as possible. To try and take that pressure off you, or indeed, I've for a long time. I used to leave my shopping until Christmas, the day before Christmas Eve, because I had it off from work. So I used to not work for the two days running up to Christmas, but then work during Christmas, New Year. So I would just do all my shopping in one day. And it was me. I took myself out for lunch. I'd have a great day. I had a budget. I knew how much it was going to spend, and if your present wasn't shoppable in the place that I was you weren't getting it, and that was, that was my way of doing it. So what is that prep? And then the second part of that prep is about prepping for the new year. And for me, it's the most amazing time to start thinking about how you're going to achieve your goals for the next year. And actually, you know, I've told a story previously on podcasts. I spent New Year's Eve once doing my financial plan for the following year in my budget, and it was the best youth I've ever had. It was the year, the year that I had the most financial success. Yeah, right. I was like, I absolutely nailed my budget. I saved way more of my income the following year than I ever done. And it was all down to that one night that I was absolutely adamant that I was gonna, I was gonna change the way that I manage my money. So, yes, it's a great time for planning. Put some time aside for it and enjoy it. Yeah, right. Buy yourself some new stationery. Buy yourself the app that you always wanted that's going to organize you this year. Go out, take yourself out for lunch and think about your goals, you know, stuff like that. Yeah, good. I like that stuff.

Okay, so should we finish off with the final question of this for you? Yeah. Okay, so I think this season, this part of the year, is where, traditionally, particularly, who live in a cold pup climate, but generally, all over the world, people get run down, right? It's the end of the season. They're tired. There's lots of germs around. They're socializing loads. They might not be looking after themselves. They might be eating too much. How do you look after yourself so that you've hit 2020, 20, in our case, healthy and well and not suffering from the excesses of the season. That's

a big question. It's hard. And, you know, you touched on some stuff there earlier, about sleeping and, you know, scheduled in time for yourself. And I think all that's really important. I think, I think when you're in this period, it is important to look after yourself, but I think there's another piece that goes with that, and I think it's important, and that's about giving yourself permission to stop doing things quite often it's hard to slow down if you, particularly if you're working a lot, and, you know, you talked about freelancers and and self employed people earlier. If you're working in a busy job, or you're working for yourself, it can be hard to give yourself a space, to slow down and take a bit of pressure off of yourself. And I think that's almost the starting point of this. And if you you know, if you think about the long term benefits of having done this, of giving yourself a space, then, then it becomes easier to do so. So if you give yourself a real break from your work, you find that actually in many ways, you're better at your work. So you go back fresher, and you go back more prepared, but at the same time, you know the little dark recesses of your brain will have been thinking away about some of the problems that you've had or some of the challenges that you've had, and by giving yourself that break, you'll actually go back fresher and with new ideas and with new certainty and with new clarity that you wouldn't have had if you pushed through. So that's just a little piece about that permission. It's really, really powerful to make sure that you've got that space for yourself, and that you that you see the value and you believe in the value of giving yourself time to step away from some of the work, things that you're doing more broadly, the things that you can do to look after yourself and start fresh include the wide range of things that support well being, and those are a little bit different for everybody, but underpinning a lot of those, for most people, are things like nutrition. They're things like sleep, things like exercise, things like socialization, spending time with people who help energize you. They're things like being aware of your hobbies and interests and the things that you can do that help you recharge. And I think they also include things like doing some support work or caring for others or contributing to something beyond yourself. Those are all things that help people rejuvenate themselves. And so while this time of year involves a lot of social interaction, a lot of partying, a lot of whatever it happens to be, it's important to try and have a framework around that period of time. It gives you what you need as an individual to help you recharge. And there'll be a whole army of highly extroverted people out here who think parties where they don't over consume are regenerating and help them, and they're absolutely right, and that's the type of thing that will help them. But for others, that'll be the type of thing that's really draining. So it's really important just to reflect on you, the types of things that build you up and the types of things that help you become your best, your most recharged, and give yourself time and space for them. And again, speak to others about them, if that's helpful for you, find others who are like you. And harking back to the message at the very beginning of this, give yourself a. Mission to do those things, to really see value in them, and to think about the benefits that you'll reap from having done them by the time you get to in so that's kind of my thoughts on the looking after yourself and starting fresh. And I always think it's really important thing to do. It just helps you go into the new year well, which is good. And just on that, actually, I've got kind of like a last thing that popped into my mind is a bit of a, I guess, bonus question, which is, I was just thinking about the new year there, and it's something that I've never really known the answer to. When we do New Years, in your opinion, are we celebrating the year of its past, or are we celebrating the dawn of a new year, a

new opportunity, or or, what do you think? What do you focus on? Man, that is such a good question. I wish we'd started the podcast without whatever, and I just don't really know what we're stupid, doesn't it? I I

don't know, and that might explain why I don't feel the same as I used to about New Year once it stopped being the night that you go out and have the best night ever, but you don't, because it always ends in tears my entire 20s, pretty much. Yeah, I had, I had a number of really, truly brilliant new year's eves, and they were all in different pubs, right? But they were locals, local to someone with a group of friends, and we would absolutely be doing a bit of both. We would play cards, and we'd have a few drinks, and we'd have a chat, and we'd have some, you know, really simple night, and we had and then we'd be home by like, one, yeah, and, and those were my best New Year's Eves when I was in my 30s. And now we, we don't, I mean, I will go out for a drink, and then we'll be home by way before midnight. But for me now it is much more about looking forward, which is probably why it's not a big celebration for me, because I've already started that process in December at some point. Yeah, but I don't know what other people are doing. And I think, if I'm honest, I think it would be a great question for people to decide before they decide what they want to

do. Yeah, maybe it's helpful to think about I mean, I certainly do a bit of both, but it's just something I've never really, yeah, I guess I've just never really decided what it is,

no, and I think it's but I think it can change as well, right? It depends on I think for a lot of people who've had a bad year, it's saying goodbye to the bad year. I think where it's been a horrible year of someone, I often see messages of people going right, good riddance. Move on New Year. It's a ritual, effectively, or a rite of passage into the new year. And I think where people have had, I don't know, so, Great question, great question. There's one for you lot. Tell us what you think on Twitter and

when we spoke about things like, you know, habits and goals and behavior change. You know, having time bound periods to work in really helps us with our goals and our behaviors and things like that. So certainly, a year as a unit is a really helpful thing, but quite how we're looking at it, I'm not sure.

Yeah, it's funny. I've always thought in years, in school years, which in the UK, is September to August, because I used to work in industries that worked along the school year. So for me, it's not the end of the year, really, in a work sense. So for me, it's always been a slightly different period than I suspect it is for a lot of people. But since I went freelance, I absolutely think about it as the end of my work year, calendar

year. Yeah, all right, well, I think that's kind of getting to the end. So in terms of what we've done, we've reflected a little bit on the holiday stroke, festive season in the calendar year, looked a little bit at people who maybe find those times of years harder than than some others. Talked a little bit about some of the work aspects around managing time off, around making the best use of your time if you're working, and then just reflected on a few little things that you might be able to do to help make the most of that time for yourself and to have a good outcome in that time of year. So I think it's pretty much time for us to finish up, but as ever, in this time of year, a feature of this festive period, at least in the UK, a lot of the time, is the Christmas cracker joke. Christmas cracker Joker, it's a cracker. It's a cracker. Yeah? Design. Sorry, that was an impression of my dad. It was a really bad impression, yeah,

designed to be pretty dreadful. Jen, have you got would you be willing to share a joke if you've got any specific jokes with Stan? Okay, I've

got it. This is my absolute one of my dad's favorite jokes. Okay, so I'm a caveat thing, and he loves Christmas jokes. So who hides in the bakery at Christmas? Mince, Spy, oh no, Jane, that's dreadful. He likes that one. Yeah,

that's great, but that's what Christmas jokes are all about. They're all about, you know, unifying people in a little groan at a joke that's there. Yeah, what about you got your favorites? Well,

I've got one. It's not actually a Christmas cracker joke, but it's very similar to one, and it's actually probably my favorite ever joke, which is no pressure, a reflection on me. So here we go. Did you hear about the man who drowned in his mutiny? No, he was pulled under by a strong current. That's brilliant, isn't it? Just dreadful. I

really like that. I really like that. I might tell that one on Christmas day. Yeah, I can probably start that in for my Christmas joke.

Yeah, anyway, cool. So I think that's us at the end of the episode. We just wanted to share a couple jokes with you and have a great holiday. So, yeah, I guess that's it. Anything else from you? Tim,

no, just from me. Thank you to everyone who's listened to us this year. It's been really like it's been the first year, and it's been amazing. And whatever you feel about the festive season, whether you're big into it, whether it's a religious holiday for you, or whether you just it's not your thing, I hope you have a safe and healthy rest of December, and we look forward to hearing speaking to you in the new year. Thanks everyone. Have